Lara, it really seems like you have experienced some of the very worst intersections of modern Calvinism, modern complementarianism, and doctrine of suffering. I am genuinely upset and furious for you and can relate to a lot of these same sentiments. Honestly, all of us should be suspicious of any movement or “crowd” that looks down its nose on anyone else or thinks it has the only corner on true faith. Yes, we have to grapple with the fact that, we can’t have beliefs unless we think that they are right (that’s the nature of the beast), but wow, do we have to be careful *how* we hold those beliefs! I think that these areas of the Church today are just absolutely broken, to the degree I won’t call myself a Calvinist or a complementarian. What I see in scripture doesn’t resemble the strange and often abusive incarnations I see in many camps who have labeled themselves in these ways. I do still hold to the doctrines of grace, but a version that more closely aligns with its title and maintains that God hates evil and suffering far more than we do. I obviously can’t articulate all of it in one comment.
But I mostly want to say that, regardless of where you have landed or will land in the future regarding God’s sovereignty, I am proud of you for fighting for your faith and forsaking broken representations of scripture. God cares deeply for His Word and His Truth. I think you are right that the world of true Christianity is far bigger than certain sects would like us to believe. I’m in the RPCNA, which is certainly a niche and an imperfect one at that, but I have a deep respect and love for all of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are genuinely searching the scriptures and desiring to honor Him. There are some outside my denomination that I have more in common with than some within—and vice versa too! Whatever corner of Christiandom we choose, we have to know there will always be broken things where ever broken people go, this side of eternity, and some of the best corners are the ones where people actually know that.
Thanks for sharing your walk as we walk beside you, Lara!
Oh Sarah, to read these words from you is such an encouragement to me. Thank you, as someone who still holds to Reformed theology, for your kindness towards me as I sort through my theology. There was a time in my life when, as someone who was Reformed, I had zero patience or tolerance for those who questioned Reformed doctrine. Thank you for you love and kind words.
Lara, I admire you so much for staring a once-beloved school of theology in the face and grappling with the truths about its shortcomings. In my experience, very few Christians are willing to examine the flaws in their theological paradigms. (Even fewer seem to know what their denomination's theological underpinnings are!) I pray that you will find healing as you explore the wider world of Christian theology.
And if it's any consolation to you, I think most of us are going to be absolutely floored when we get to heaven and realize how much we got wrong.
I completely agree that we will likely be so surprised when we find out what we had wrong!! That's why we need so much humility now, something I think I will always be learning.
So appreciated the vulnerability here, Lara, and I’m sorry for the way man-made constructs have hurt you. I belong to a reformed church and have been cared for very well by the people in it, but I, too, carry a more ecumenical perspective than some there would. To me, that’s a much bigger view of God, actually. Anyway, sending you love friend. I’m crawling along in my life in so many similar ways to you, and it’s a weary journey. I see you. Keep moving ❤️
I completely agree that that's a much bigger view of God, and I constantly humbled the more I consider the vastness of God's church despite our minor differences!
I was in the Reformed world for about 7 years. The abuse scandals, my friends walking away, and many other things made me abandon it.
It's so jarring to come out of it, and find abundant life outside of the reformed world.
I am happy for you, but it will take a lot of time to adjust and the sneaking suspicion that God doesn't want you to have joy takes a while to go away. At least for me.
I know exactly what you mean about fearing that God doesn't want us to be happy. I think undoing the wrong things I have believed over the past several years will take a long time to undo, but I am so glad we have a patient God to walk alongside us in it.
I could relate to so much of this, Lara. I don't think I was as attached to Reformed theology, but it was the water I swam in. When I needed it to, it offered no framework for dealing with intense suffering and betrayal. Ultimately, 8 or so years down the line from total unraveling, the lingering questions, "Is God a monster?" and "Does He actually hate women?" landed me where I'm at now (we just entered the Catholic Church). I'm not saying that's the answer, but I trust that God will be with you in the unraveling process, and I can deeply relate to how uncomfortable and humbling, but also freeing it is.
Those are the same questions I found myself asking. It is such a despairing place to find yourself! I'm so grateful for people who have gone before me in this unravelling journey and can attest to God's faithful presence through it.
I’m sorry Lara. I had the same reckoning (for different reasons) at the beginning of my return to faith. I wrote about it years ago, but am nervous about responses it’s got. John Lennox, Aquinas, Roger Olson, Timothy Lane Craig, Keith Yandell, Spurgeon and somewhat Beth Allison Barr were very helpful for me, if that’s of any use.
Like the E Bennet connection. Much love and prayers.
If you ever want another pair of eyes on your piece, I'm happy to read it! And thank you for all those names—I'll check them out! I love the words of Spurgeon.
Always kind with your offers. It was on my blog, in part, for a couple of years then I submitted a largely rewritten version to a journal 3 months ago. Going to give up and put it back on my blog shortly. It’s called The Wrong End of the Telescope. Isn’t it just good, sometimes, to know you’re not alone?
Although I inhabit mostly Reformed spaces in my writing life, I have never held to that stream of doctrine in my actual life. I'm just now starting on a journey to discover the doctrinal stream that I've long held to, but couldn't name. You're not alone!
Lara, it really seems like you have experienced some of the very worst intersections of modern Calvinism, modern complementarianism, and doctrine of suffering. I am genuinely upset and furious for you and can relate to a lot of these same sentiments. Honestly, all of us should be suspicious of any movement or “crowd” that looks down its nose on anyone else or thinks it has the only corner on true faith. Yes, we have to grapple with the fact that, we can’t have beliefs unless we think that they are right (that’s the nature of the beast), but wow, do we have to be careful *how* we hold those beliefs! I think that these areas of the Church today are just absolutely broken, to the degree I won’t call myself a Calvinist or a complementarian. What I see in scripture doesn’t resemble the strange and often abusive incarnations I see in many camps who have labeled themselves in these ways. I do still hold to the doctrines of grace, but a version that more closely aligns with its title and maintains that God hates evil and suffering far more than we do. I obviously can’t articulate all of it in one comment.
But I mostly want to say that, regardless of where you have landed or will land in the future regarding God’s sovereignty, I am proud of you for fighting for your faith and forsaking broken representations of scripture. God cares deeply for His Word and His Truth. I think you are right that the world of true Christianity is far bigger than certain sects would like us to believe. I’m in the RPCNA, which is certainly a niche and an imperfect one at that, but I have a deep respect and love for all of my brothers and sisters in Christ who are genuinely searching the scriptures and desiring to honor Him. There are some outside my denomination that I have more in common with than some within—and vice versa too! Whatever corner of Christiandom we choose, we have to know there will always be broken things where ever broken people go, this side of eternity, and some of the best corners are the ones where people actually know that.
Thanks for sharing your walk as we walk beside you, Lara!
Oh Sarah, to read these words from you is such an encouragement to me. Thank you, as someone who still holds to Reformed theology, for your kindness towards me as I sort through my theology. There was a time in my life when, as someone who was Reformed, I had zero patience or tolerance for those who questioned Reformed doctrine. Thank you for you love and kind words.
Lara, I admire you so much for staring a once-beloved school of theology in the face and grappling with the truths about its shortcomings. In my experience, very few Christians are willing to examine the flaws in their theological paradigms. (Even fewer seem to know what their denomination's theological underpinnings are!) I pray that you will find healing as you explore the wider world of Christian theology.
And if it's any consolation to you, I think most of us are going to be absolutely floored when we get to heaven and realize how much we got wrong.
I completely agree that we will likely be so surprised when we find out what we had wrong!! That's why we need so much humility now, something I think I will always be learning.
So appreciated the vulnerability here, Lara, and I’m sorry for the way man-made constructs have hurt you. I belong to a reformed church and have been cared for very well by the people in it, but I, too, carry a more ecumenical perspective than some there would. To me, that’s a much bigger view of God, actually. Anyway, sending you love friend. I’m crawling along in my life in so many similar ways to you, and it’s a weary journey. I see you. Keep moving ❤️
I completely agree that that's a much bigger view of God, and I constantly humbled the more I consider the vastness of God's church despite our minor differences!
I was in the Reformed world for about 7 years. The abuse scandals, my friends walking away, and many other things made me abandon it.
It's so jarring to come out of it, and find abundant life outside of the reformed world.
I am happy for you, but it will take a lot of time to adjust and the sneaking suspicion that God doesn't want you to have joy takes a while to go away. At least for me.
I know exactly what you mean about fearing that God doesn't want us to be happy. I think undoing the wrong things I have believed over the past several years will take a long time to undo, but I am so glad we have a patient God to walk alongside us in it.
I could relate to so much of this, Lara. I don't think I was as attached to Reformed theology, but it was the water I swam in. When I needed it to, it offered no framework for dealing with intense suffering and betrayal. Ultimately, 8 or so years down the line from total unraveling, the lingering questions, "Is God a monster?" and "Does He actually hate women?" landed me where I'm at now (we just entered the Catholic Church). I'm not saying that's the answer, but I trust that God will be with you in the unraveling process, and I can deeply relate to how uncomfortable and humbling, but also freeing it is.
Those are the same questions I found myself asking. It is such a despairing place to find yourself! I'm so grateful for people who have gone before me in this unravelling journey and can attest to God's faithful presence through it.
I’m sorry Lara. I had the same reckoning (for different reasons) at the beginning of my return to faith. I wrote about it years ago, but am nervous about responses it’s got. John Lennox, Aquinas, Roger Olson, Timothy Lane Craig, Keith Yandell, Spurgeon and somewhat Beth Allison Barr were very helpful for me, if that’s of any use.
Like the E Bennet connection. Much love and prayers.
If you ever want another pair of eyes on your piece, I'm happy to read it! And thank you for all those names—I'll check them out! I love the words of Spurgeon.
Always kind with your offers. It was on my blog, in part, for a couple of years then I submitted a largely rewritten version to a journal 3 months ago. Going to give up and put it back on my blog shortly. It’s called The Wrong End of the Telescope. Isn’t it just good, sometimes, to know you’re not alone?
Although I inhabit mostly Reformed spaces in my writing life, I have never held to that stream of doctrine in my actual life. I'm just now starting on a journey to discover the doctrinal stream that I've long held to, but couldn't name. You're not alone!